ITG is Comin' Home

GaKki · Post by **GaKki** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:47 pm

I just read on DDRFreak.com that Red Octane will be publishing a home version of In the Groove:

DDRFreak.com wrote:RedOctane announced today it has signed an agreement with developer Roxor Games, Inc. to release In the Groove, the high-energy dance game designed from the ground up by hardcore dance gamers. Based on the hit arcade game, In the Groove will be the first-ever published video game for RedOctane and will be available exclusively on the PlayStation2 computer entertainment system.

Cool-ness.

pkmnx · Post by **pkmnx** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:51 pm

I'll get the Stepmania files for the four new songs it's introducing and then keep pumping tokens into our arcade version.

chocobojoe · Post by **chocobojoe** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:32 pm

ITG would be nearly impossible at home unless you had 300 lb metal pads that wouldn't scoot around while you're playing

I'm with Andy.

GaKki · Post by **GaKki** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:55 pm

Oh. I thought you all would enjoy the news cause you all seem crazy abou ITG. Hmph. Oh well.

SoDeepPolaris · Post by **SoDeepPolaris** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:08 pm

http://www.redoctanegames.com/Games/games.html

Yeah, I'm with Joe and Andy on this one, songs like My Favorite Game would be fun on a home metal pad, but the 11's and up you would have to have really good pads. You can't beat the arcade style pad's for harder songs.

Dyme · Post by **Dyme** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:05 am

that is awesome. i've always wanted to plat ITG but the closest machine is in fort wayne and that like 90 miles or even farther

LikeableRodent · Post by **LikeableRodent** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:32 am

I wonder how Konami will deal with this. Up until now I'm sure that Konami has been turning a blind eye to the rampant illegality of the arcade games throughout the US, as Konami both no longer has an American arcade division and the popularity of arcade DDR helps to drive sales of the console versions.

As an arcade-only venture ITG is pretty safe from lawsuits in America, as after all why would Konami waste the money suing ITG when Konami isn't making money off of the DDR machines in the US anyway, but now with them releasing a home version it puts a new spin on things.

In America the DDR console versions are the only place Konami is getting their money from DDR, so now that ITG, an obvious rip-off of DDR, is trying to enroach upon Konami's money-making arena I'm sure that they will start to take notice. I'm quite curious to see if Konami actually does anything about this.

Post by **MonMotha** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:53 am

Unless Konami has a patent on this particular style of dance simulation (4 directional arrows oriented in compass directions, so as not to apply to other games like Pump which has legal US versions still being made and marketed), there's nothing wrong with ITG, assuming they didn't steal any artwork (and redrawing it with a similar likeness does constitute a derivative and would be copyright infringement).

The reason all the DDR machines are illegal in the US is due to licensing ("For Use in Japan Only") and the fact that 95%+ of them are running burned copies anyway. There's nothing wrong with making a DDR-like game (ala ITG) as long as you don't steal any songs (and license your songs appropriately in the target market), characters, artwork, etc. You certainly can't call it "Dance Dance Revolution", though.

Again, this all rests on there not being a parent on DDR-style dance simulation in the US.

I am not a lawyer. I do not purport to dispense legal advice. If you desire legal advice, please contact a lawyer.

LikeableRodent · Post by **LikeableRodent** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:39 am

Konami's US patents pertaining to DDR

I will point out that, to my knowledge, Konami hasn't made a fuss about the other dance games that have been released, though of course they all have sucked so far anyway.

I think it's more likely than not that they won't get sued, but the possibility sure is there.

Bionix · Post by **Bionix** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:06 am

Well i am definetly gonna by this game.

Post by **MonMotha** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:07 am

Unfortunatley the USPTO's website is horrifically broken (like many government websites). However, based on some of the abstracts, it would seem that many 3rd party DDR controllers as well as Pump would violate some of those patents. Either said devices are licensed or they are in violation of the patents. My US CS copy of MAX2 mentions US and foreign patents pending, though it doesn't list any explicitly.

ITG may have licensed the patents from Konami, however. If not, Konami of America (assuming they are the actual holders) could certainly bring a suit against the ITG people. Again though, the abstracts seem to also imply that the actual controller (one specifically mentions controllers where the hardness differs with sections, which would describe an Ignition pad) may also be patented, and I've not heard of any lawsuits over that, nor am I aware of any patent disclaimers on the box that would indicate RO licensed anything from Konami of America.

On a similar note, apparently the reason there was never an attempted US release of Drummania is because another company holds a US (but not Japanese) patent on drum simulations.

Post by Ho » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:19 am

As I continue the trend of turning this into the "legality of third party DDR clones" thread...

Let us not forget the possibility that Konami is large enough, strong enough, and rich enough to litigate the likes of Roxor or RedOctane into oblivion regardless of the merits of their claim.

However, the fact that they settled (I believe) with Andamiro over Pump It Up leads me to believe that they would not resort to this monopolistic American tactic.

And back to the original topic, I'd have some marginal interest in such a game. I'd be especially interested if they chose to include StepMania-like features (since Roxor comes out of SM anyway) such as the ability to create custom skins, songs, etc. It's certainly not impossible on the PS2, but at the same time I'll be surprised if it actually happens.

sam · Post by **sam** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:03 am

I don't know I'm less trustworthy towards konami. think about it, piu got screwed pretty hard...no home console version existed up until a few months from now...well it still doesn't exist...but it's coming

the only place piu was allowed was on pc for home use because konami flopped oh so horribly with their *awesome* ddr4pc. also isn't piu SUPPOSED to only be sold in korea now?

i would hardly call that a win in my book

Post by Ho » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:31 am

Well, it's a win compared to being sued out of business altogether.

To be honest, I don't know all the background and details on the situation between Konami and Andamiro. However, I do know that arcade machines are sold and licensed legally in this country while the majority of DDR machines are not.

PIU has survived this long despite past legal action from Konami. So they must have resolved their differences in some way or another. Their home versions may seem late to the game (pardon the pun), but the point is that they do and/or will exist.

It's not so much a matter of trust on my part as it is an application (perhaps a poor one) of observations of past, seemingly similar, situations.

LikeableRodent · Post by **LikeableRodent** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:59 pm

I think I'll scuttle back to the posts at the beginning of the thread concering the viability of playing the expert ITG songs on a home pad.

I play ITG expert stepfiles on Stepmania with RO Ignition pads and they hold up just fine. Every once in awhile I wish I had a bar to hold on to, but I think your fears concerning home pads are unfounded, assuming that you at least have good pads (i.e. Ignitions).