IndyDDR.com

Today a news break came out on Live 365's broadcast of Orange Lounge Radio.
Konami has filed an injunction against Roxor, the makers of In The Groove.
Hereis the article about it.


Discuss.

Well, this is interesting. Konami has a bunch of patents on this kind of thing. IIRC, they and Amdamiro settled a while back over Pump in the US wrt the patent issues. I suspect Roxor will probably be able to do the same. If Konami presses this (and doesn't let them settle), it could indicate a new arcade release, possibly with a new cabinet design and some added features (ala BM IIDX vs. original 5 key BeatMania) though don't hold your breath. My guess is that they'll settle the patent issues pretty quickly and get on with business.

The article also mentions trademark issues. There's two problems here. One, it looks like Roxor was being very, very careful to avoid trademark issues. They completely changed the look and feel of the game. The word "dance" doesn't even seem to appear anywhere, at least not as a title of any kind. The other issue is that ITG is getting kinda old now. You have to defend a trademark if you want to keep it. I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not familiar with the kinds of terms that are usually set, but it seems like ITG has been out for a lot longer than one would have expected for a trademark suit to come up.

Also, the article says that KCEJ is the one bringing suit, not KCEA. KCEJ shouldn't care about console releases at all: all theirs are region coded for Japan only, so I don't see how it would be an issue related to the upcoming console release, unless KCEA asked for a favor since I believe KCEJ is the name on the patents.

All in all, I expect this will probably be over pretty quickly. Dance games are a patent minefield in the US due to DDR, but Konami will probably just enter into a licensing agreement with Roxor. Trademark issues can usually be resolved quickly as well (there's probably just a word or two that Konami objects to). Without seeing the actual legal filing, it's hard to say what's being claimed, of course.

I think they have no lawsuit, because their complaint was that Roxor is "refitting the cabinets."
Once anything is owned by an arcade, they can do whatever the hell they want with it, including changing out its innards to put in a new game (arcades do this a LOT with fighting games to save money, considering they all have pretty much the exact same controller). Konami would have to prove that Roxor "refitted a cabinet" themselves that was still actually owned by Konami Corporation to have any kind of grounds for this suit.

While it is generally legal to change the game in a cabinet (and the JAMMA standard was devised for exactly this purpose), there are a couple issues with DDR I can see:

• The design of the stage is patented, heavily. The patent license for DDR could be construed as to not carry over to other games in the same cabinet
• The design of the arrow panels (cosmetic) is likely trademarked (as is the phrase "Show me your moves" that appears on them). Again, the license may not carry over
• Some operators do not replace all the decals, though I believe the kit includes a full set, so the complaint against Roxor here would be watery at best

The second issue is interesting because 3rd party replacement panels are very common (most Schaffer machines in Indianapolis are using 3rd party replacements, as do all Namco machines). These replacements have been around for a LONG time. My guess is that they didn't care because it didn't cause them problems with lost sales (at least not KCEJ, Betson may not have been happy). However, if they're claiming trademark infringement, again see the whole issue of having to defend it or lose it.

Konami may also claim trademark on the design of the cabinet, though that would be murky. PIU cabinets are VERY similar in nature, and I can't see someone really saying that the license to a trademark on a cabinet design is tied to the game in the cabinet.

As usual, I am not a lawyer, I do not purport do dispense legal advice. If you want legal advice, contact, oh, I don't know, maybe a lawyer?

Also, I think it's KCEJ and not the American company that is filing. If this is true, KCEJ would also have to sue every arcade/individual in the nation that owns an imported DDR machine and/or bootleg DDR mix, since they say "FOR SALE AND USE IN JAPAN ONLY" or whatever.
Konami's probably gonna lose this one, or there will be a quick out-of-court settlement between the companies. At most I think Roxor might get forced into paying some minor royalties for the home version.

this will be a close one. It will all come down to the look of the game and the upgrades. When non-players would see ITG they would probably think, "Oh, that's DDR!" They wouldn't know the difference. The fact that roxor was selling the upgrades wont help their case much either.

Keep in mind also that many people who see Pump It Up also immediately think DDR...

And to address the other comment, no, Konami doesn't HAVE to sue all the arcade ops with bootleg copies or Japanese versions in the US. That's a copyright issue. They would be *entitled* to compensation, but they are not *required* to seek it. Copyrights differ from trademarks in this aspect.

MonMotha wrote:Keep in mind also that many people who see Pump It Up also immediately think DDR...

And to address the other comment, no, Konami doesn't HAVE to sue all the arcade ops with bootleg copies or Japanese versions in the US. That's a copyright issue. They would be *entitled* to compensation, but they are not *required* to seek it. Copyrights differ from trademarks in this aspect.

But PIU also has different arrow designs, and after a quick glance, they could quickly tell there was something different than ddr if they had seen ddr before.
With ITG (I've never actually seen one except in videos, so i may be wrong) there really isn't a difference other than what's on the screen and I believe it has a banner on the machine? Isn't that the only difference?

fpd wrote:But PIU also has different arrow designs, and after a quick glance, they could quickly tell there was something different than ddr if they had seen ddr before.

You'd be suprised. The first time I tried to play it there were a whole bunch of nonplayers standing on it and not doing anything, I asked to go and the guy was like, "I challenge you!" I agreed and he asked "have you played this before?" and I was like "no." We played and I did almost decent, and the other guy failed. He got all angry and was like "how come you lied to me and said you hadn't played before" and went on to say I probably had it for the ps2. I told him that it DOESN'T EVEN EXIST for the ps2, but he was convinced that this was ddr or something.

On a sidenote, piu dx BLOWS. Just my opinion

hascoolnickname wrote:

fpd wrote:But PIU also has different arrow designs, and after a quick glance, they could quickly tell there was something different than ddr if they had seen ddr before.

You'd be suprised. The first time I tried to play it there were a whole bunch of nonplayers standing on it and not doing anything, I asked to go and the guy was like, "I challenge you!" I agreed and he asked "have you played this before?" and I was like "no." We played and I did almost decent, and the other guy failed. He got all angry and was like "how come you lied to me and said you hadn't played before" and went on to say I probably had it for the ps2. I told him that it DOESN'T EVEN EXIST for the ps2, but he was convinced that this was ddr or something.

On a sidenote, piu dx BLOWS. Just my opinion

thank you for going offtrack completely...

anyways im guessing konami will win this one because of all the patents they have, and unless if roxor designs a new pad or something (i dunno... add a middle button and only support it in a few songs? haha) then konami has a really good chance here...

I hope Roxor loses actually... just because i want a new DDR arcade mix... and Roxor would continue, they would just adjust a little. but they would still continue.

I do believe that roxor will lose. Either way it will balance out for the better, and lht- sorry.
I also want a new mix- new, more difficult songs.

Ok.. To be blunt, we have more of a chance of seeing Eminem getting a sex change than getting a new DDR mix. Konami doesn't give a fuck about us.

BeatmaniacIIDX wrote:Ok.. To be blunt, we have more of a chance of seeing Eminem getting a sex change than getting a new DDR mix.

Hah, Eminem will never have a penis.

Actually, Konami is gonna lose this, because Roxor is doing nothing illegal by selling their hardware.
They don't state anywhere in the manual, on the official game site, or on the business site that the arcade owner HAS to use the conversion kit in a DDR, Dance Dance Revolution, or Konami machine. They simply state it's for use in a "dance game cabinet", which is a huge legal loophole in their favor. They're not breaching any of Konami's patents so far as Konami's issue with them at hand. Read the article carefully.

Update : DDR Freak has copies of the Legal Filings.