Girls of IndyDDR

[CaseyDidder]

fuck this seriously. Most the bitches in indyddr are to fuckin ugly for even the gayest of men to hang on there wall. Specially certain few like Arka and Mosh. I don't dig BBW. I'm not into ugly people. I'm also not into SCAT.

Heres a brilliant idea by yours truely.

Why not just have a calendar of all the different groups that play together? A Bloomington Group maybe seperated to Lazerlite and IU students. Then a Purdue Group, a Gameworks photoshoot, Ft. Wayne, Mishawaka. I'm sure you could get 12 pictures of the different groups and use that. It'd be much more appropriate than ugly bitches, and alot more appealing also.

But what do I know

::waits for the cows to defend themselves::

edit: The only plus side to an all girls calendar, is it'd make great wacking material. I already got a line up of pre-approved girls though. And if the ugly ones make it on, i'll have to either forget to change the month, or tear out the used calendar dates so that the ugly girl (ex: arka) isn't visible except to cat turds in the trash can, and I won't have to turn the page to see the next dates!

The asian is approved by the way, both of em.
Gattoon and Pheadra.

Other possiblities could be Juli. uh yah thats bout it that actually post here.

Jenna too.

edit2: i could use the ugly girl's face as a 'catching tool' so when i do wack it, the splooge doesn't land on my floor, but onto the paper to cover the hideous mess that is already on it. How do these awesome ideas come to my head? man!

[the gattchoon]

Hahaha.


I'm sorry, I don't mean to be mean. There's your post, Casey. =X

[Mr. Worm]

With a statement like that, you've obviously made up your mind regardless of what I or anyone else may say. I am content to leave it at that. Your points have been noted, but the only thing I can definitively conclude from them is: This project is not for you.

Sure, try to make me sound like some closed-minded individual.
Of course, that's what's happens in debates such as these. You have your view and I have mine. We can keep arguing, but we're never going to convince each other to change our own respective opinions.
I never asked to be apart of your project. I just decided to voice my opinion.

*What* is that girl doing? Oh... oh my god... can it be? She *is*! She's *smiling*! Smiling and holding a GuitarFreaks controller! That's disgusting, Ho! Put her back under her veil this instant!

Are girls really only capable of seductive poses? Why not funny or impressive poses? Plenty of the ideas that have run through my mind for a male analogue to Ho's original concept could be just as easily portrayed by women as by men.

Remember, even if *you're* only capable of seeing women as sex objects, not all people have that problem. I, for one, sure don't.
[/vicious]

That's vicious? Hah. I respect woman as human beings, thank you. Ho sees them as sex objects, no matter how he rephrases it. Well, maybe not sex objects, but as objects that are to photographed and put onto pictures. Even if he didn't view them as objects, what key demographic is he playing toward? Nerdy guys. How do you get their attention? Milk the girlie card! So now this isn't something fun, this is something sexual in nature.

Now I never said that the girls will be scantily clad. But the problem is the pictures will not be fun if the girls are just posing. It looks very forced. Any energetic pose will look sexual. I'm sorry, I just think there's something subliminally sexual about these poses, be it male or female. A picture is meant to invoke some feeling with in the viewer, and I'm just afraid some nerd will get this calendar and be a little too happy. Again, I get that weird stalker vibe.

Anyway, Mr. Worm if you left the community...they stay gone. If you arent apart of the community anymore, then why would we care about the opinion that someone not in the community (ie a person who wouldnt even have the chance to buy the calender.)

Like I said before, when I heard about this calendar, I decided I had a moral obligation to try to put a halt to it.

[Arka]

Why not just have a calendar of all the different groups that play together? A Bloomington Group maybe seperated to Lazerlite and IU students. Then a Purdue Group, a Gameworks photoshoot, Ft. Wayne, Mishawaka. I'm sure you could get 12 pictures of the different groups and use that.

Hmm, that's not a bad idea.

But the problem is the pictures will not be fun if the girls are just posing. It looks very forced.

No, that's what happens when you have either poor models, poor photography or poor photo design. I have no idea how well different men or women will do with posing, but my impression of Ho is that he's fairly skilled in both of the latter areas. (I know I loved some of his selections of ID photo from the XScape tournament, and those were just action shots.)

Ho sees them as sex objects, no matter how he rephrases it. Well, maybe not sex objects, but as objects that are to photographed and put onto pictures.

Um, OK. Seeing them as sex objects and seeing them as visual elements or as people who can be part of an image are miles apart. Basically all of the objections you list can be and are overcome by sufficiently skilled artists. "Milk the girlie card"? Sure, if you're a talentless hack. Unless you have some reason to believe this is true of Ho, I'm not sure why you're so convinced that this will happen.

I'm sorry, I just think there's something subliminally sexual about these poses, be it male or female.

Why?

Like I said before, when I heard about this calendar, I decided I had a moral obligation to try to put a halt to it.

WHOA! A moral obligation? Rethink your choice of words, please. Are you implying that Ho & Co are doing something morally wrong?

We can keep arguing, but we're never going to convince each other to change our own respective opinions.

I agree that it's unlikely that our opinions will change. However, we may convince you to go away and stop speaking for "ten other people." That, in my cynical book, would be worth it.

I guess in the final analysis, my question is this: WHY do you see these things as sexual? Is there any reason beyond "everything we do is sexual because humans are sexual creatures" (not a good assumption for all of us, BTW)? If there's something specific in the format or in what's been discussed thus far, aside from the fact that the project involves girls, that conveys that to you, it would be useful to have that input because it might be easily eliminated. Otherwise, I guess my reaction is the same as Ho's (only less civilized, as usual).

[danc1005]

Are you implying that Ho & Co are doing something morally wrong?

Did you just make that up? That's catchy.

-Dan

EDIT: BTW, I have some Photoshop skills. I bet I could make a pretty nice cover for the calendar. Let me know if you're interested.

[Mr. Worm]

But the problem is the pictures will not be fun if the girls are just posing. It looks very forced.

No, that's what happens when you have either poor models, poor photography or poor photo design. I have no idea how well different men or women will do with posing, but my impression of Ho is that he's fairly skilled in both of the latter areas. (I know I loved some of his selections of ID photo from the XScape tournament, and those were just action shots.)

The thing is very few of the models, if any at all, have done any serious modeling. And looking through some of Ho's photos, they all look spontaneous. And they all look like something worth of MySpace. I really have no idea if he can actually take high quality pictures.

Ho sees them as sex objects, no matter how he rephrases it. Well, maybe not sex objects, but as objects that are to photographed and put onto pictures.

Um, OK. Seeing them as sex objects and seeing them as visual elements or as people who can be part of an image are miles apart. Basically all of the objections you list can be and are overcome by sufficiently skilled artists. "Milk the girlie card"? Sure, if you're a talentless hack. Unless you have some reason to believe this is true of Ho, I'm not sure why you're so convinced that this will happen.

He already said:

Also, in my opinion, I think that females just make for more aesthetically pleasing photographs when the subject matter is otherwise gender-independent.

1) I'd say that the subject matter is not gender-independent. I'll give this to him: he's smart to market a bunch of girlie pics off to the IndyDDR forum. Sex sells.
2) This is an over-exertion of his sexuality. I've seen this before, in Ho and in other people. He wants to confirm his heterosexuality.
(Unless of course, he's a homosexual or bisexual. I have no idea. I've seen the guy like twice, and I've never talked to him.

I'm sorry, I just think there's something subliminally sexual about these poses, be it male or female.

Why?

Okay, try finding a model that doesn't look sexy. Then, ask yourself: "Is this a sterile, unoriginal pose? Or are there children or old people?"

If you can find one, you would have found an extremely rare commodity.

Like I said before, when I heard about this calendar, I decided I had a moral obligation to try to put a halt to it.

WHOA! A moral obligation? Rethink your choice of words, please. Are you implying that Ho & Co are doing something morally wrong?

Hell, I'm not implying anything. I'm flat out stating that this project is morally and ethically wrong. I owe it to the world to do my best to see it never sees light.

We can keep arguing, but we're never going to convince each other to change our own respective opinions.

I agree that it's unlikely that our opinions will change. However, we may convince you to go away and stop speaking for "ten other people." That, in my cynical book, would be worth it.

Because you disagree with me? Am I that big of a thorn in your side? There's really no other way to put this: you're an asshole.
I know plenty of people that have extremely differing opinions than me, but that doesn't mean I don't tell them to go away.

This is the kind of attitude that developed this IndyDDR cliché.

I guess in the final analysis, my question is this: WHY do you see these things as sexual? Is there any reason beyond "everything we do is sexual because humans are sexual creatures" (not a good assumption for all of us, BTW)? If there's something specific in the format or in what's been discussed thus far, aside from the fact that the project involves girls, that conveys that to you, it would be useful to have that input because it might be easily eliminated. Otherwise, I guess my reaction is the same as Ho's (only less civilized, as usual).

Humans are sexual creatures. It is a pretty good assumption. But it's not completely how I feel. I've seen models in ads and on other print, and I know that most of the time that the pictures are sexual.

Oh, and your response was extremely uncivilized. How firmly are your lips planted on Ho's ass again?

[Potter]

edit2: i could use the ugly girl's face as a 'catching tool' so when i do wack it, the splooge doesn't land on my floor, but onto the paper to cover the hideous mess that is already on it. How do these awesome ideas come to my head? man!

roflroflroflroflrofl the only post in this whole thread worth reading.

[Arka]

[Context cut for length]

The thing is very few of the models, if any at all, have done any serious modeling.

And amateurs clearly are incapable of taking (with guidance) interesting and non-sexual poses.

And looking through some of Ho's photos, they all look spontaneous. And they all look like something worth of MySpace. I really have no idea if he can actually take high quality pictures.

You're confusing two issues. These are *action shots,* not posed photos - I cited them because I thought that of the photos he was selecting from (I assume they were stills from the videos he recorded of the competition) he did a good job of picking some that were (1) interesting, and (2) nonsexual.

He already said:

Also, in my opinion, I think that females just make for more aesthetically pleasing photographs when the subject matter is otherwise gender-independent.

1) I'd say that the subject matter is not gender-independent. I'll give this to him: he's smart to market a bunch of girlie pics off to the IndyDDR forum. Sex sells.

WTH?!

Do you genuinely believe he's doing this entirely for personal financial gain? If so, it isn't going to be worth it: photography projects, particularly those involving travel, people, etc., are a hell of a lot of work. Trust me, I know.

2) This is an over-exertion of his sexuality. I've seen this before, in Ho and in other people. He wants to confirm his heterosexuality.
(Unless of course, he's a homosexual or bisexual. I have no idea. I've seen the guy like twice, and I've never talked to him.

ROTFL. "This is an over-exertion of his sexuality... unless you can prove I'm wrong."

I have known plenty of people who undertook photographic projects involving women and/or girls. Some were sexual; some weren't. I've participated in some as a subject. I did not do so for sexual reasons - I did so because I thereby obtained some awesome shots of myself (conducting an "empty orchestra," sitting in front of a Shakespearean performance, mimicing the famous "Justice" statue and other interesting things) which I still think are intriguing. Some of the individuals who took those photographs are far superior to me in terms of photographic/artistic ability, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate and enjoy their art.

Okay, try finding a model that doesn't look sexy. Then, ask yourself: "Is this a sterile, unoriginal pose? Or are there children or old people?"

If you can find one, you would have found an extremely rare commodity.

So because pop-culture is sex-obsessed, our little subculture must be sex-obsessed too? I think (hope) I'm missing part of your logic here.

BTW, some representative photos from a very distant acquaintance of mine showing people in decidedly non-sexual poses (though much of his work, like mine, features non-human subjects). His site doesn't conveniently allow direct links, so click through "Photography\People" for some pertinent ones.

This is the genre we're talking about - not "buy this toothpaste!" photography.

Hell, I'm not implying anything. I'm flat out stating that this project is morally and ethically wrong. I owe it to the world to do my best to see it never sees light.

In what way is it morally wrong to take and produce pictures? Is it because of the supposed "sexuality" involved, or is it something else?

Because you disagree with me? Am I that big of a thorn in your side? There's really no other way to put this: you're an asshole.
I know plenty of people that have extremely differing opinions than me, but that doesn't mean I don't tell them to go away.

This is the kind of attitude that developed this IndyDDR cliché.

No, because it's pompous and arrogant to claim that you speak for everyone, and it's suspect when you go on to claim that you've talked to "10 other people [who] felt the same" without citing any names or talking to anyone who posts here. You may not tell people who have differing opinions to go away (typo ignored), but you apparently tell them that their opinions and resulting actions are morally reprehensible; I'm not sure why this is somehow better.

I encourage you to take this conversation to PM with me, since I've begun to suspect I'm the only one who cares to unravel your argument. Comments from others? Should I be discussing this with him privately?

As to the IndyDDR cliché, refer to this post.

Humans are sexual creatures. It is a pretty good assumption. But it's not completely how I feel. I've seen models in ads and on other print, and I know that most of the time that the pictures are sexual.

So because sex is the rule in commercial media, individual people embarking on individual projects must also incorporate sex?

Sex as a motivation for people is very common but not a universality. There is a difference between coming up with a probable scenario for something and insisting when presented with an alternative that said alternative does not exist. From here, it looks as though you're doing the latter.

Oh, and your response was extremely uncivilized. How firmly are your lips planted on Ho's ass again?

I should respond to this, really I should, but I just love the juicy irony of watching those two sentences sit there, side by side.

[Potter]

Worm, please take your retarded comments out of here. all your arguing is entirely unbased and unfounded. you have taken syllogistic reasoning past way more steps than usable and have done so more than anyone i have ever heard. All your argumentive comments are based entirely on assumptions (also really unfounded) and other completely unproved things. You obviously are here because you object to something very strongly, but say what it is, tell why YOU wouldent like it, and stop using completely unfounded statements to try and tell us we WE wouldent like it. You use the WORST assumptions to tell people things, and even good assumptions are still wrong to use in this type of thing. plsgohomekthxbai

[the gattchoon]

As I said before, "Arguing on the internet is like racing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.



I do, of course... refer to Mr. Worm.

[Potter]

Im going to ignore that, rather then to tel lyou why that is also retarded

[Ho]

I was at a church function this morning, so I haven't had a chance to read or respond to any of this until now. (How ironic that my morality was simultaneously being questioned...though I will be among the last to draw a definitive link between religion and morality. Please note that I say 'religion' in the most generic of terms.)

Arka and Potter have pretty much already spoken for me on nearly all points. Apparently they are among my "10 people" who share my views...

I would only like to respond to one point directly.

With a statement like that, you've obviously made up your mind regardless of what I or anyone else may say. I am content to leave it at that. Your points have been noted, but the only thing I can definitively conclude from them is: This project is not for you.

Sure, try to make me sound like some closed-minded individual.
Of course, that's what's happens in debates such as these. You have your view and I have mine. We can keep arguing, but we're never going to convince each other to change our own respective opinions.
I never asked to be apart of your project. I just decided to voice my opinion.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I made no such statement about you. I was merely noting that by declaring this project 'evil' that you had obviously already passed judgement upon it. I have absolutely no quarrel with you for doing so. Though I disagree with you, I actually appreciate your willingness to stand by your opposing viewpoint.

However, the only reason I continued to further explain my vision for the project was and is: If you (or anyone) is going to pass judgement on it, I would hope and implore you to do it based on its actual merits and not some distorted view.

You keep falling back on an argument of sexual immorality despite many arguments to the contrary. It is as though you think this is my base nature even though you also admit to not knowing me at all personally (I have absolutely no idea who you are). Perhaps your moral views are much more conservative than my own. Ok.

If after at least making an attempt to understand what I hope to accomplish with this project you still wish to condemn it, so be it. I have no real interest in changing your mind any more than anything you have said has changed my own. I'm not in this to "win." I just want you to make your decision based on facts as I have presented them and not assumptions of what you think I might be planning.

[Ho]

one of his usual diatribes that isn't worth actually quoting

These are the precisely reason I am not inclined to grant the petition to give you more posts. I understand it is your humor and personality. Some may find it funny, but this kind of defamatory talk can also be quite cruel and hurtful to some.

However, it is true that you do contribute positively to this group as well...

Why not just have a calendar of all the different groups that play together? A Bloomington Group maybe seperated to Lazerlite and IU students. Then a Purdue Group, a Gameworks photoshoot, Ft. Wayne, Mishawaka. I'm sure you could get 12 pictures of the different groups and use that.

This is not a bad idea. Though it sounds even more difficult to organize, and I'm not really sure how well definied any groups are at this point. The Westside days, for instance, seem but a distant memory.

I still desire to do something more creative or artistic rather than simply 'documentary.' I don't know if I would want to tackle your project idea myself, but I would certainly consider supporting someone who did.

[TaQa]

Trudging through all this grime worked up by "Mr. Worm", while I would enjoy rambling on forever pointing out the flaws in his arguments, I'd rather just hit on one thing that was...pretty uncalled for:

2) This is an over-exertion of his sexuality. I've seen this before, in Ho and in other people. He wants to confirm his heterosexuality.
(Unless of course, he's a homosexual or bisexual. I have no idea. I've seen the guy like twice, and I've never talked to him.

Yes, a married man of many years needs to confirm his sexuality by producing a calender. He needs to prove to his wonderful wife he is, in fact, loyal to her. And, OH MY GOD! IS THAT HIS WIFE IN ONE OF HIS EXAMPLE PHOTOS? No...couldn't be...

Seriously "Mr. Worm", if you think this is about financial gain, then you obviously don't know Ho. I am 100% positive that any sort of "profit" Ho would be granted would go either straight back into the community, or to charity. All this "Sex sells" bullshit you're trying to pull would be true for a commercial business, but this is not a commercial business. We have shirts that cost Ho the same amount to get as it does any regular member. In other words no profits. Notice how there are no ads on the site? Ho spends lots of time running the site, and money out of pocket to support it.

Please, rant more though. I'm sure you could be doing better things than making this entire community dislike you, but whatever floats your boat.

[hascoolnickname]

Oooooh mista wurrrrm mi love you long time
5 dolla make you holla

call me baby