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MonMotha wrote:Brand new Exceed 2 machine is $6k from coinopexpress, less than the price of a very used DDR machine.

Oh, duh, I think I was thinking about the new ITG2 machines and got the prices confused.

And you can get used DDR machines for like, less than $3k =P Sure it'd be a 1st or 2nd mix, but still, for an extra 2k on top of that you could upgrade it to ITG That's what I told the owner at Tokens & Tickets to do, but I dunno if he's gonna get one or not. I haven't talked to him in a couple months (haven't been around the arcade much)

Actually, good luck finding one, at least one that's in playable condition. I've even seen 1st mixes that don't power on (bad power supply) go for around $3k on eBay, let alone anything in working shape. Finding a DDR machine is a very difficult thing to do in general these days. You're likely to have almost as much luck walking into a local arcade and making an offer as you will finding one online (they do show up on eBay sometimes). eStarburst and coinop don't even claim to be able to find you one anymore. ChannelBeat claims to have some, but we all know how reliable they are (or if you don't, they're apparently pretty bad).

Regarding upgrading an old machine to ITG, would you really want to try to play ITG on LazerLite's 4th Plus machine? After all, that's about what many 1st/2nd mix machines are like at this point, especially the ones that'll go for $2-3k.

I find it kinda hard to believe that Roxor thinks they'll be able to sell very many ITG2 machines for $12k. It's just a pump GX cabinet with a DDR style stage layout, using their old hardware. I can't imagine licensing on the songs drives the cost up that high, since apparently that's around the price that a new DDR machine went for back when they were still being made and the game was incredibly popular in Japan. Many arcades in the US are lucky to turn $12k from their entire establishment in a year. It would take years for such a machine to become a worthy investment, considering how much they'll depreciate in value.

Oh well, good luck on getting Drummania. Maybe you can get a Guitar freaks machine and link them, too. That would be awesomely good. PP would become the Bemani capitol of Indiana if they did that and kept their IIDX machine.

MonMotha wrote:I find it kinda hard to believe that Roxor thinks they'll be able to sell very many ITG2 machines for $12k. It's just a pump GX cabinet with a DDR style stage layout, using their old hardware. I can't imagine licensing on the songs drives the cost up that high, since apparently that's around the price that a new DDR machine went for back when they were still being made and the game was incredibly popular in Japan. Many arcades in the US are lucky to turn $12k from their entire establishment in a year. It would take years for such a machine to become a worthy investment, considering how much they'll depreciate in value.

Well, first, the ITG2 machine's aren't just PIU machines with a different stage. They're a brand new style of machine with new buttons, and yes a DDR style stage. Andimaro hadn't made this kind of machine before, which is why the price jumped up some, plus they had to use the new Roxor hardware, which bumped the price up another couple thousand.

And as far as arcade turnover: I'm almost sure they make a couple thousand every weekend off silly redemption games alone. Covering the cost for all of it is maybe 500 bucks so they're still up around 1500. And that's just redemption games. Arcades wouldn't by $40,000 machines like Time Crisis 3 if they weren't even making $10,000 in a year.

Must not have been like any of the pictures I've seen then. Those were definately a Pump GX cabinet with a very different (non-pump) stage, at least that was the overall external construction. I don't really care who makes it or what it's made from though. I somehow doubt they'll sell very many at $12k each, at least not around here. A good part of why DDR machines are prevalent around here is because they're cheap to get (comparatively) second had from Japan since they're not wanted anymore. New, DDR machines went for about $10-12k (or so I've been told). Notice how few establishments in Indiana bought a new one when they were available (only one I'm aware of is Gameworks). Larger arcades may make enough to justify it, but probably not if they already have a DDR machine (unless they were thinking of getting another one). Smaller arcades (like Westside) just couldn't afford it.

Oh well, if they fix the damn skipping problem, I'll be happy. Not like you need new hardware to do that though: that's a software issue.

Oh, and according to a Namco source (so this may be a price for Namco arcades), TC3 machines are only around $15k new. They're also hugely popular, often making more than DDR (the one in Terre Haute did for a long time, and is still a solid #2).

They most certainly fixed the skipping problem! Actually, they fixed it in later releases of ITG1, but the Fort wasn't lucky enough to get one =(

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the pricing of ITG is related to VOLUME.

Like any company, I'm sure Roxor wants to recover their R&D costs and make a profit. DDR and PIU both sold thousands of units (I'm guessing). ITG doesn't have that kind of distribution strength and will likely sell fewer (also a guess, but I think a realistic one)...and probably more as conversion kits than full machines. So for them to make their target profit they have fewer total sales to spread across than the likes of DDR or PIU. Therefore: higher price.

Ah, I wasn't aware they'd still be selling conversion kits for old DDR machines (which does sadden me in a way, seeing poor DDR machines helplessly "upgraded", even though the game is good). They're in an interesting situation. They can sell these new cabinets, but they either have to try to move volume (not likely) or sell at a high price (and risk selling very few of them and not making much money anyway).

It'll be interesting to see how many new cabinets they sell, and in what markets. I'm not sure the DDR market in Indy could support a $12k investment, though it may be able to in other markets. It'll also be interesting to see how good the stages on the new ITG cabinets are. I'm curous as to what kind of sensors and such they'll be using. IIRC, Konami has turned this into a patent minefield. But hey, if it works, I'll play on 'em :)

Back on topic, be sure to let me (and the IndyDDR community in general) know when Ft. Wizzayne gets ITG2. I'll have to venture back up there to play some more. Bonus points for a recent mix of GF or DM (preferably GF), and of course the IIDX machine (janky as it is) is always fun.

I just looked back at this thread and I can't really figure out where this $12K number go thrown out. Visit this link for some "real" numbers to work with:
http://www.inthegroove.biz/sales.htm

New ITG2 machine: $9999
Upgrade from ITG to ITG2: $999
Conversion kit from DDR to ITG2: $2999
Conversion kit from DDR to ITG: $2399

I don't know how many common parts there are between the new ITG stage and the PIU stage, but I think it's safe to say that fewer are being produced and therefore it may not benefit as much from the mass production factor. So yes, it's going to be a balance for Roxor to sell where they can make their desired margin without scaring people off entirely. Although in this day and age I don't think $10K is really all that unheard of in the arcade cabinet business.

Well i got some bad news and some iffy news. DM is now a lost cause but he is seriously considering PIU so keep those fingers crossed.

Aww, was looking forward to trying to play more DM. Ah, well. It would end up going the way of Beatmania for me.... (Travis, don't you say a word).

Bionix wrote:Well i got some bad news and some iffy news. DM is now a lost cause but he is seriously considering PIU so keep those fingers crossed.

While it would be really awesome if you did get Pump, where would Putt-Putt put such a large machine? The only logical place would be to put it by the old didder machine, I guess. But it would be almost impossible to PA if two people decided to play ITG and PIU at the same time.

Well i got some bad news and some iffy news. DM is now a lost cause but he is seriously considering PIU so keep those fingers crossed.

Lame.

Anyway, while I'm here I should bring up that the 7th key (the bottom right-most key) on the left side of the IIDX machine is sticking, could you fix it? Thanks.

omg Merk's home??