Rally to help Casey gain 1 more post a day

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Post by Ho »

Since it was asked, one note with regard to AllusiveGold:

His rank is determined solely by the ratings system. I and the other moderators have taken no specific action toward his account above or beyond what the system is setup to do automatically. Right or wrong, the forum users themselves have determined that they dislike his posting habits for whatever reasons.

Casey's account is the only one that has been manually forced into a "negative" rank due to continued tendencies toward behaviors that historically led to results that, right or wrong, I deemed undesireable here. In addition, there were obvious attmepts to try and skew his ratings. Though, as I have said before, his current rank would be Standard if he was not in Administrative Discipline--the rank created just for him. ;)

In the end, my point is that in each of these cases someone or several someones have made a judgement call. You may agree with it. You may disagree with it. But it has been done. And also as I have said before, I am much more likely to make decisions based on proven patterns of behavior than on the requests of others or the parties involved. That is why Casey still gets one post and why negative ranks still get posts in general. The idea is for those people to be able to have an opportunity to participate in ways that people may approve of.
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Post by XxJennaxX »

Ho, all your banning shows is that your attempt at a ranking system has failed. The main purpose of it (to get the people to ban Casey instead of yourself) didn't work out like you thought it would, so yet again you have to do it yourself.

Why not jus be mature enough to admit your system failed.
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Post by sam »

that's cute.....asking someone else to be mature over casey
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Post by Ho »

XxJennaxX wrote:Ho, all your banning shows is that your attempt at a ranking system has failed. The main purpose of it (to get the people to ban Casey instead of yourself) didn't work out like you thought it would, so yet again you have to do it yourself.

Why not jus be mature enough to admit your system failed.
If the only measure of its success was to get Casey banned, then yes, the rating system failed. In fact, it is impossible for it to succeed because the rating system cannot ban a user. It was never designed to do so.

The actual purpose of the rating system was to give users a voice to express either approval or disapproval of posts in the hope that it would promote the types of posts that a majority of people liked and discourage those that a majority did not. The results of which would give rewards and punishments with less direct action on mine or the other moderators' part. In that goal it has been a resounding success.

Regardless of the rating system, on this forum the ultimate decision is mine to make. Additionally, I'm neither the first nor the only one to do so for the same reasons.

Casey has had more second chances than I've bothered to count. In each case he has chosen to continue down the same path that has led to his multiple bannings. His behavior is no more welcome here now than it has ever been. Why I've given him so many chances, I'm not sure. Perhaps I was hoping for the same maturity from him that you're asking of me.
Last edited by Ho on Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by hascoolnickname »

If Ho wasn't mature, he would have retaliated right there.
Having to degrade someone else to get your point across is really mature.
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Post by The X »

The thing that I don't get is why is Casey always the one getting the heel when there have been MANY OTHER PEOPLE doing the exact same thing, if not far more worse?

It seem kinda like a personal Vendetta to me more than anything.

I mean, even Ho has aggreed with many of us when he said the best thing to do when you're getting wailed online is to just handle it with maturity and move on, and now, because a bunch of other people can't be matre enough to keep there comments to themselves, the easiest thing to do is to blame 1 person? I find that ridiculous.

Anyway, you may think I'm taking his side by this, but DON'T. I'm just saying it's kinda wrong to only notice 1 persons offenses, and not others. That sounds kinda like a form of immaturity in itself
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Post by Ho »

The behavior of many of the people you speak of is triggered by Casey's actions. Not universally, of course, but I certainly would consider him the cause of some of what you mention. In that case, I would consider my action to be treating the cause rather than the symptoms.

In other cases not related to Casey at all, people have used the rating system to take care of some. For others, simple warnings/suggestions usually bring them in line. Casey, on the other hand, has been warned, banned, etc. more times that I can even remember and continues to do the same thing.

As for a vendetta...it's nothing of the sort. I already explained earlier in this thread:
Ho wrote:I have no personal quarrel with him, but his overall effect on this community has been consistently destructive. And while some, including myself, understand or even appreciate his biting brand of humor, others simply do not and it tends to cause problems that I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with.

He gets one post. Sometimes he uses it well. Often, he doesn't. I do not have confidence that he is any less inclined to the latter than he has ever been. No amount of petitioning can make up for the choices he makes all on his own.
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Post by blackcat »

hascoolnickname wrote:If Ho wasn't mature, he would have retaliated right there.
Having to degrade someone else to get your point across is really mature.
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Post by Fluffyumpkins »

XxJennaxX wrote:Ho, all your banning shows is that your attempt at a ranking system has failed. The main purpose of it (to get the people to ban Casey instead of yourself) didn't work out like you thought it would, so yet again you have to do it yourself.

Why not jus be mature enough to admit your system failed.
Alright we get it, you love Casey. Go get married.



As for Brian, I think he's been more than fair. You can bet that I'd be less tolerant.
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Post by Original Sin »

So much drama.

So sad.
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Post by Arka »

XxJennaxX wrote:Ho, all your banning shows is that your attempt at a ranking system has failed. The main purpose of it (to get the people to ban Casey instead of yourself) didn't work out like you thought it would, so yet again you have to do it yourself.

Why not jus be mature enough to admit your system failed.
I'm not sure whether I should even reply to this post, given that there's a 50% chance that she just let Casey use her account to make it, but as long as we're beating the "1 more post" thread into the dust:

Jenna, the rating system was devised to allow people to give their opinion on posts without flooding Brian's inbox, and arguably to reward people for making consistently appreciated contributions to IndyDDR.

It was not devised to handle really egregious behavior, or to "get the people to ban Casey." There's a reason that basically all internet discussion options, be they forums, Usenet groups or wikis, have moderators with the power to step in and stop serious abuses. There's a reason the moderator tradition has persisted over 20 years: because there will always be some people who care more about a community than others, and it is (usually) necessary to give those people stewardship powers to balance out the omnipresent people who, for whatever reason, actively try to destroy the community and irritate its members.

Brian has shown a remarkable amount of patience in dealing with both Casey and the people who repeatedly rise to his bait. As I said in the other thread (ironically before the banning): if I were Brian, I would have banned Casey long before now - despite the fact that I have no personal quarrel with him, and enjoy having someone to trade comical insults with - because he has shown himself to be in the latter group. I regret the fact that he continually picks fights which escalate into flame wars which incinerate useful threads, but he does, and minimizing such things is Brian's (admittedly self-inflicted) job.

So remember, Jenna, there is no cabal.

And if you miss him so much, you always have the Casey-lib. :wink:

Standard disclaimers apply. My comments about the nature of the rating system are my own, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Brian, MonMotha or anyone else who actually KNOWS what it's for. If anyone "gets" the cabal reference, I will be shocked and awed. But not as shocked and awed as I will be if anyone besides Jenna and maybe Pheadra, who we haven't heard from yet, is actually irate at Casey getting banned. How many lines of microtext do you think I can come up with? I can probably beat Green Tea's last attempt. I'm very verbose. I know! - you'd never think it, would you? But I really am. The only problem is that now I have no target for random insults and bashing, since Casey's gone and anyone else might take it seriously. MonMotha? How about a token feud for old times' sake? <attempts puppy-dog eyes>
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Post by Potter »

that was casey btw
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Post by XeroCi »

I don't know. If no one took his playing around and flaming seriously, he wouldn't continue to do it in that thread. I'm sure he likes to watch people take his stuff seriously. You guys just fueled the fire in /most/ cases.
I actually respect Casey, but I have no merit on this forum for my opinion to count for anything. In the same token, he shouldn't try to start anything, but everyone ridicules things. He is just very open about himself and isn't afraid to voice his opinion. People shouldn't take opinions so seriously. This is the internet. Ignoring is an option on many IM programs and your own brain for a reason.

Banning is up to Ho, but I don't know... I just think people should overlook things they don't want to hear.
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Post by Ho »

XeroCi wrote:I just think people should overlook things they don't want to hear.
I've certainly advocated that very tact on many occasions. Reality has proven not to deliver on it.

Frankly, the flames and the flamebait don't really bother me directly. It's when those flames take over and derail topics and even whole forums that bothers me. It hurts the community atomosphere, it breaks the general flow of communication, and it leads to complaints and clean up that I simply don't want to deal with.
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Post by XeroCi »

I think its just me, then. I can handle personal insults, being owned (expecially with the whole eon8.com thing), and just plain down-right being made fun of. Infact, I find it funny for myself to be made fun of most of the time. I get irritated when people insult my friends, so he has aggrivated me on occasion (i.e. some of the time at the Kokomo Tournament). He shouldn't make fun of people who arn't as good as he is, but I'm all for open opinions. Just sometimes not aloud.

Either way, mainly, it is the immaturity of people not being able to handle some insults that causes disiplinary actions toward Casey. I won't change sides on that. It's not like he threatened to kill anyone... so I, myself, see no harm in him being on IndyDDR.

But, reguardless, it isn't my place to say what it better or worse, because I don't run IndyDDR and I'm glad I don't. Too much work. Ho, you are an excellent forum admin (infact, the best I've known), so please don't take offence by my opposite opinion, because I thought I had a problem with Casey until I actually thought about it. Everyone wants to insult people sometimes. Casey just does it whenever he thinks about it. He really doesn't seem like a bad guy to me. Just very, very open.
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