Ho's Humility Thread

[Arka]

In other news tonight:

Arka, the ball is fully back in your court...

Song Battle Comparison
dj HO! Victories: 27
dj ARKA Victories: 0
dj HO! WINS!

I picked up beatmania US over the weekend. Target still had the bundle for $39.99. That means I can challenge your scores without dragging out my entire JP IIDX library for a few songs each as well as play the songs that are exclusive to the US version. In addition, I can play old songs like e-motion with niceties like HS4 and the new style interface (and I'm told better synching as well).

I was able to play and pass every Normal (L7) song in beatmania US one-handed. However, some of those scores on VJ Army are from previous better plays on a JP version. But I should have a full score sheet in Normal now, so you can compare at will....

<*whimper*>

Okay, you win. At least until I can find the time to bring out my controllers and abuse IIDXUS some more...

Oh, by the way, I will (shortly) have something capable of playing my Japanese mixes. Once I accomplish that, things will really get interesting.

And last but not least,

But then, if your feet are REALLY flat, you may need the hard soles, as you probably don't want to be klunking your arches into the pointy bits of the pad!

Allow me to demonstrate...

Yeah... you know, forget what I said about playing in split-soles. You'll permanently scar your "arch."

I still advocate trying soft-soled shoes for everyday use. You'd be amazed at how much more enjoyable they are (and surprisingly, how much better your feet feel after you get used to them). But you're absolutely right that the most rewarding way to improve at DDR/ITG/PIU is to hone your technique, independent of fancy footwear.

On an unrelated note,

This is your last post for today!

I need a life. Preferably more than one, so I can put together a redundant array.

[MonMotha]

One other point of notable IIDX news was a new AA for V. That should give MonMotha something to do. :)

Hum, I apparently need to get another 16EX on that song, now... (You'll note that I already have a AA)

[Amp Divorax]

E-Motion on 3rd style was a pain in the ass as back then HS3 went at 4.0x speed so it was scrolling at 580 bpm, which is a psychoticlaly fast scrolling speed. Beatmania US does help as HS4 is at 3.5x speed so now it's at the best speed for me to play it on. I should note that the timings for Beatmania US are the earliest I have seen in the IIDX series to date, whereas 3rd style is possibly the latest that I've seen and the end result is that alot of people hit too early when they haven't adjusted to 3rd style.

[Ho]

Ok Arka,



I am now armed with two US beatmania controllers...LET THE 14-KEY MADNESS BEGIN!

And after all that talk from you about 14-key, I didn't see that you had any doubles scores logged in VJ Army. What gives?

[Arka]

A NEW CHALLENGER HAS APPEARED!

<bouncybouncybounce> Squeeee!!

Also, that is a marvellous picture. I only wish I had so much class. (I tried to take a similar one for this reply and failed miserably...)

The reason I don't have any doubles scores logged in VJArmy is because I don't have anyone to compete against! But now I do, so I shall log them ex post haste. If nothing else, I'll go through IIDXUS and put up the ones that it has saved for me.

Edit: as soon as I figure out how to make IIDXUS cough up the info... grr. In the meantime I replayed a few of my L14 favorites and posted them. It's not much, but it gives you something to squash.

Another edit: forgot to play era & Holic. Also, I have now printed a nice glossy version of that picture and am running out to buy a frame.

[danc1005]

On the main menu, go to "Records". It's fairly easy to navigate through L7, 7, 14, etc. as well as the difficulty levels. However, it saves the score with the highest "score" not the highest EX score, so you may have a higher EX score that's not recorded, because I'm pretty sure it only saves the top score.

[Ho]

In the meantime I replayed a few of my L14 favorites and posted them. It's not much, but it gives you something to squash.

That sooo didn't happen. You're winning on the four matching Normal 14 scoress we have.

Tonight I mostly just played to set a baseline...playing each song and moving on. There were only a couple that I tried to improve my initial score on. However, I was very pleased that I passed all the difficulty 1, 2, and 3 songs tonight. Then I got to the level 4 songs and I got beat up a bunch before I was able to pass a few.

I have to say that 14-key is really challenging but fun at the same time. It's a pretty different mechanic and a nice change of pace.

[Amp Divorax]

US KOCs? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Those things are horrible when it comes to jackhammers.

[MonMotha]

And a good doubles ASC setup will easily run you $600...

Two US KOCs can be had for $80...

Besides, they seem to perform better than the JP KOCs in just about every way, jackhammers included.

I also have two controllers now. I'll be building a deck to play them on some time soon. 14k FTW!

[Arka]

In the meantime I replayed a few of my L14 favorites and posted them. It's not much, but it gives you something to squash.

That sooo didn't happen. You're winning on the four matching Normal 14 scoress we have.

Tonight I mostly just played to set a baseline...playing each song and moving on. There were only a couple that I tried to improve my initial score on. However, I was very pleased that I passed all the difficulty 1, 2, and 3 songs tonight. Then I got to the level 4 songs and I got beat up a bunch before I was able to pass a few.

Nice! I vastly underestimated how quickly you'd progress. I'll post a few level 4s through 6s for a better comparison. (And I figured out why I was doing so badly on Bad Boy Bass!. ) For an extra challenge, try to match my M02Stp or Holic scores... those songs are decidedly nontrivial, even on light/normal.

I have to say that 14-key is really challenging but fun at the same time. It's a pretty different mechanic and a nice change of pace.

YAAAAY! I've made an addict!

I also have two controllers now. I'll be building a deck to play them on some time soon. 14k FTW!

YAAAAAAAY! I've made another.... oh, wait, it's you. I'm not sure you count - you're an automatic addict to all things Bemani.

Oh well. Now there are three of us to play 14key! And as we all know, 3*14 is 42, which is clearly not just a coincidence.

[Ho]

For an extra challenge, try to match my M02Stp or Holic scores... those songs are decidedly nontrivial, even on light/normal.

Are we talking about L7 or L14 key here? Holic L14 is way out of my league to even pass at the moment, and 2-step songs give me trouble for some reason. I can play swing just fine, but I really struggle with 2-step. It usually takes me several plays to get I can score decently on a 2-step (or even pass, sometimes).

I have to say that 14-key is really challenging but fun at the same time. It's a pretty different mechanic and a nice change of pace.

YAAAAY! I've made an addict!

I also have two controllers now. I'll be building a deck to play them on some time soon. 14k FTW!

YAAAAAAAY! I've made another.... oh, wait, it's you. I'm not sure you count - you're an automatic addict to all things Bemani.

Wait a second. I have three Bemani arcade machines (plus Pump) in my basement and somehow I'm not an automatic addict?!

Oh well. Now there are three of us to play 14key! And as we all know, 3*14 is 42, which is clearly not just a coincidence.

Whoa, that's a stretch. That kind of thinking is just wrong...because I didn't think of it myself!

[hascoolnickname]

Wait a second. I have three Bemani arcade machines (plus Pump) in my basement and somehow I'm not an automatic addict?!

I can quit at any time man! I don't need this every day!
JUST LEAVE ME ALONE

[Arka]

For an extra challenge, try to match my M02Stp or Holic scores... those songs are decidedly nontrivial, even on light/normal.

Are we talking about L7 or L14 key here? Holic L14 is way out of my league to even pass at the moment, and 2-step songs give me trouble for some reason. I can play swing just fine, but I really struggle with 2-step. It usually takes me several plays to get I can score decently on a 2-step (or even pass, sometimes).

I meant L14. If you really master the L7 version first, it's actually not as hard as you'd think, since most of the patterns are directly lifted from it - I'd rate that and 02stp the same subjective difficulty, despite the fact that 02stp's a 4 and Holic's a 7.

Both are good learning pieces. If you're anything like me, once you can pass them (even without doing well), your 7key AND 14key abilities will have greatly improved.

Wait a second. I have three Bemani arcade machines (plus Pump) in my basement and somehow I'm not an automatic addict?!

I have a very hard time imagining anyone who's more of an addict than MonMotha is. He's like... Mr. Bemani. On PCP.

Besides, you know that Pump machine isn't really yours. If anything, it should contribute to his relative addict total. Any old addict can have Bemani in his basement, but it takes a special kind of addict to have Bemani in someone else's basement.*

*And if my impression of its ownership situation is outdated... uh, look over there, a three-headed monkey!

[Ho]

Just some random notes from my early 14-key experience:

I think the reason I was able to get through the level 1-3 songs without much trouble is that most of those charts just "transfer" from one controller to the other--much in the same way that DDR doubles work. Notes appear on one side and then make their way over to the other side and you're not playing both controllers simultaneously too much. I'm able to play right handed up through about level 6 and left handed up through about level 4, so playing on either side at that level isn't too much more of a stretch.

But by the time you get to level 4, you start seeing much faster transfers along with independent simultaneous parts for each hand. I'm struggling a bit simply because that's a lot of information for me to process.

DDR doubles only have 8 lines of information (and doesn't require independent parts). pop'n music has up to 9 lines of information. Its harder levels do require independent parts for each hand--a skill that I'm only so-so at. At 16 lines of information (14 keys plus 2 turntables), 14-key beatmania is asking me to process ~78% more information than the "largest" music game I've played (not including KBM, but I haven't played it that much). I need practice to get my hands working independently. That's probably a natural skill for a pianist...but I'm not one.

I think that the result of having so much more to read is that I've also had to kick the high speed down a step--sometimes two. That's throwing off my timing a little since I'm used to the higher scroll rates now.

Oh well, this was just sharing my experience for the sake of discussion. There's no real point to it except to collect my thoughts. I've only been playing 14-key (with any seriousness) for 2-3 hours now, so I expect to require much more practice to develop a level of proficiency.

Besides, you know that Pump machine isn't really yours. If anything, it should contribute to his relative addict total. Any old addict can have Bemani in his basement, but it takes a special kind of addict to have Bemani in someone else's basement.*

*And if my impression of its ownership situation is outdated... uh, look over there, a three-headed monkey!

For the record, I own the majority stake in the machine...always have. However, it was purchased with the intent that I would not be the one to keep it in the long run.

[Arka]

Oh well, this was just sharing my experience for the sake of discussion. There's no real point to it except to collect my thoughts. I've only been playing 14-key (with any seriousness) for 2-3 hours now, so I expect to require much more practice to develop a level of proficiency.

Don't hesitate to share - it's always interesting to hear about others' experiences (with Bemani and in general).

You have a point about the relative note density of 1-3s vs. 4-6s (and up). With the former, the 14-key charts seem to be created by taking the 7-key charts and dividing up the notes between the two hands (sometimes in a way that doesn't make much sense!). Once you get into the latter, the charts are more coherent in that each "natural" grouping (by hand, by key, etc.) usually makes more sense.

At 16 lines of information (14 keys plus 2 turntables), 14-key beatmania is asking me to process ~78% more information than the "largest" music game I've played (not including KBM, but I haven't played it that much).

Well, it is if you measure information in terms of "number of possible notes." However, that may not be the only way of receiving/processing it. I tend not to think of the notes independently when I play IIDX. And I'm not sure how to communicate the way I do think of them. This is probably the pianist in me taking over - you may be right that this is a skill acquired through piano playing. But at the same time I'd argue that 14-key IIDX isn't really analogous to normal piano or keyboard playing - it's more like reading an orchestral score at the piano. You're less likely to have literal repeats and more likely to have themes chopped up and rearranged or paired with each other differently.

You're also more likely to have multiple parts of more-or-less equal musical importance. One thing that bothered me when I was a student of piano (and the primary thing that I tried to avoid with my own students) was that so many piano teachers have this mindset of, "Find the melody, play it louder than everything else - there will always be one and exactly one at any given point in the piece, and it will always be more important or interesting than the rest of the music." That attitude may be appropriate when you're playing traditional or pop songs, but it's just stupid to sit down with Rach III and go, "Okay, which note in each 16th-note chord am I supposed to play louder than the others?"

So I guess all of this is my long-winded way of saying that maybe it SHOULD be a natural skill for a pianist, but too often it's not because of traditions of piano pedagogy.

I think that the result of having so much more to read is that I've also had to kick the high speed down a step--sometimes two. That's throwing off my timing a little since I'm used to the higher scroll rates now.

That's interesting. I must file this factoid away for later reference. Playing doubles has enabled me to use more high-speed mods. Of course, I started out at virtually nil...

For the record, I own the majority stake in the machine...always have.

Yes, but it's the PRINCIPLE of the thing!