The Great Music Game Music Debate

[Potter]

if you let wikipedia dictate your view and grasps of music, your comprehension of the creative arts and creative collective is far lost and not worth trying to save or argue. Like I said, you have made it very clear you have barely began to venture into unconventional music. (mentioning mogwai reassured me of this)



you try to accuse me of being musically elitist, yet you feel you have the right to call people's creative conscious "garbage", and feel the need to attack people for disagreeing with you. I think you should just leave this forum and not come back.

there's nothing left to discuss.

[elcuebee]

if you let wikipedia dictate your view and grasps of music, your comprehension of the creative arts and creative collective is far lost and not worth trying to save or argue. Like I said, you have made it very clear you have barely began to venture into unconventional music. (mentioning mogwai reassured me of this)

Who said it dictated it?

I'm just saying, I find it funny that a collective of hundreds of thousands of people have came up with 100 subgenres of music. If you have subgenres of music for electronica that aren't there, please do list them, bands that play in them, and how they're so incredibly unique.

Again, you saying unconventional = good is something i've *never* said, I said it was my personal preference, but you're stating it as fact. You're not even in debating territory; you're in weak insults territory now.

you try to accuse me of being musically elitist, yet you feel you have the right to call people's creative conscious "garbage", and feel the need to attack people for disagreeing with you. I think you should just leave this forum and not come back.

there's nothing left to discuss.

Really? I attack people for disagreeing with me? seems you're the only one attacking anyone here; as Ho had said, I'm backing up my points with facts and have not personally insulted anyone but you.

Again, for you to say that I don't have "the right" to call someone's "creative conscious" garbage is hilarious because that's just a very naive viewpoint. People are not skilled at everything. Some people are going to make music that sucks in terms of being pleasant to the human ear, and that's just fact.

It also is very hypocritical of your exact viewpoint;

you say that I should not call creative things "garbage" because everything is good to someone in the world, right?

So then why do you insist that my musical taste, development, and maturity is not "up to par" due to not having listened to the number and depth of bands you have? This directly implies that bands that are not unconvential, specifically the bands I listen to (which you still have no idea what they are, you're going off assumptions) are not up to par, thus "garbage".

Thanks for playing; there really isn't anything to discuss here anymore, with you that is. Anyone else who wants to debate intelligently and not contradict themselves multiple times within the same post, I invite you to, we were having some good debates until this.

[Potter]

the hypocrisy coming from you is honestly mindblowing. really, take a step back for a minute.

there's nothing left to discuss.

[danc1005]

Just my two cents, the use of the word "gay" to mean "stupid" or inferior in any way (past 4th grade) shows complete immaturity and lack of vocabulary and skill at intellectual debate.

[Ho]

This is a good discussion...

...but may I suggest that we start a new topic and get back to welcoming Andrew here?





Welcome once again, Andrew.

[hascoolnickname]

there's nothing left to discuss.

sadly

[Cbav]

why do you think ITG makes racist song titles?

[Ho]

I guess you don't want to take my suggestion, so I'll just split this topic off myself.

Continue...

[elcuebee]

Just my two cents, the use of the word "gay" to mean "stupid" or inferior in any way (past 4th grade) shows complete immaturity and lack of vocabulary and skill at intellectual debate.

Yes, unless you have a shit-ton of gay friends already whom know you use it that way and use it that way themselves.

why do you think ITG makes racist song titles?

I don't personally find them racist, actually. I'm saying in the general media, the general people who play it might find it racist; some people flip out.

Here's an example; I had a black friend a while back. Me, him, and two other guys were watching that movie with Adam Sandler in it about a football team full of prison inmates.

Me and the two other guys saw the huge ass buff black guy and were like "damn I bet he could bench a fuckin truck!" just out of suprise of how damn buff he was.

My black friend flips out, says "man you're just saying he's buff because hes black, fucking stereotyping" and leaves the house and doesn't come back. I'm not making this up, some people just get thier buttons pushed easily. DDR managed to get ethnic tunes in there and have them have non-blatant names. Again, naming the song Hispanic Panic is probably akin to naming a song "Black Attack", and you know people would be up in arms about that.

-------

Also, to hascoolnickname;

I really hope you're talking about potter being hypocritical.

Here's what he did;

-Said that I was a musical elitist
-Then says that if I use wikipedia to "govern" my tastes (which I don't) then i'm not worth debating with.

*direct contradiction/hypocrisy*

-Said that I shouldn't have the right to call other people's works garbage
-Then said that by listening to mogwai, he already "knew" i hadn't listened to much (somehow) and that I obviously was in the wrong because i didn't listen to the bands he did.

*direct contradiction/hypocrisy*

-Finally said that I was attacking people, and if you go back, I can't find a single time i insulted anyone directly, and every time I made a point I tried my best to back it up with facts.
-Potter then attacks me, saying my musical taste basically sucks (which I never did in any post to anyone, I said that it's fine if you like ITG music, it's just not my preference) and it's not developed, along telling me to "get off the forums", again, another attack outside of the realm of debating.

*direct hypocrisy*

those are literally almost direct quotes from Potter's posts, so if anyone else has anything non-attacking to debate with, go ahead, as it seems potter can't control himself.

[danc1005]

Some people are going to make music that sucks in terms of being pleasant to the human ear, and that's just fact.

OH WAIT YOU MEAN LIKE M1DY?
Let me point something out here that's being blatantly ignored.
MUSIC IS BASED ON TASTES
TASTES
Do you understand what that means, dbv? It means that YES, no matter WHAT "garbage" artists put out, there will be SOMEBODY that enjoys it. NOBODY has the right to call music garbage and claim it as fact. All you are doing is trying to somehow back up OPINIONS and TASTES with what you call intelligent argument (which is a completely pointless and ridiculous aim).
OF COURSE PEOPLE DISAGREE ON THINGS HAVING TO DO WITH MUSIC
This is because music to everybody is 99% how THEY PERCIEVE IT.

Jesus Christ, I'm tired of you trying to start debates in every forum over silly shit and then act like you're all high and mighty because you THINK you somehow back yourself up better than everybody else.

[elcuebee]

OH WAIT YOU MEAN LIKE M1DY?

Opinion; seeing as he has a huge fanbase worldwide, I wouldn't say that his stuff is complete garbage. I have found very few bands that actually sound like complete garbage, but m1dy isn't one of them, and the fanbase backs that up.

Let me point something out here that's being blatantly ignored.
MUSIC IS BASED ON TASTES

It's being ignored? really? Is that why in my last post I was talking about how some bands sound good and others don't, aka my tastes?

Do you understand what that means, dbv? It means that YES, no matter WHAT "garbage" artists put out, there will be SOMEBODY that enjoys it.

Um, you just contradicted yourself, saying that m1dy was garbage then. And there are some bands, very rare, that literally no one would like; it's a definite possibility, just due to the laws of nature that at least one band would come about that no one likes.

NOBODY has the right to call music garbage and claim it as fact.

Yet you just did. So did potter. Potter said that because i listen to mogwai, my tastes must not be developed etc. which was a huge assumption. You just said that m1dy sucked.

All you are doing is trying to somehow back up OPINIONS and TASTES with what you call intelligent argument (which is a completely pointless and ridiculous aim).

Someone's getting heated up over an internet argument...

OF COURSE PEOPLE DISAGREE ON THINGS HAVING TO DO WITH MUSIC
This is because music to everybody is 99% how THEY PERCIEVE IT.

Ok? I already know this, so why are you going on about it? The original debate was that ITG music all sounded similar due to it all being produced by mainly the same people and the same way of producing it, and that DDR had more variety of music.

Jesus Christ, I'm tired of you trying to start debates in every forum over silly shit and then act like you're all high and mighty because you THINK you somehow back yourself up better than everybody else.

Really? I do? Is that why I thought that hascoolnickname was debating intelligently, and that cbav even brought up a few good points?

I didn't know you were psychic, how did you read my mind and know that I think I back myself up better than everyone else? Because you're assuming it from my posts on the internet, where you can't get anything out of it but words?

Debates in every forum? i've started them in *two*. Both of them had people posting intelligently to them. Sorry that you don't like the exchange of different ideas, opinions and facts.

Silly shit? Why are you on this forum if you don't like to talk about ITG, DDR, and music?

[Potter]

jesus christ you just put so many words into my mouth I honestly can't believe it. learn to read. learn to comprehend, and learn to recognize how amazingly hypocritical you are. Ive had numerous people messaging me ever since you started posting asking me if you are serious. it seems everybody sees your extremely flawed illogical debate tactics except yourself.


I would spend the effort to point out your complete hypocrisy, failure, and personal attacks, but it would be effort wasted. nickname already did this, and you ignored him and started nitpicking. just go home.

[danc1005]

it would be effort wasted

QFT.

I'm done for real now, where's that ignore button that people were asking for a while back?
No point in continuing to argue.

There's an old Romanian saying that goes "Daca doi iti spun ca esti beat, du-te si culca-te"
"If two people tell you you're drunk, go to bed"

HEY DBV
YOU'RE DRUNK

[elcuebee]

jesus christ you just put so many words into my mouth I honestly can't believe it. learn to read. learn to comprehend, and learn to recognize how amazingly hypocritical you are. Ive had numerous people messaging me ever since you started posting asking me if you are serious. it seems everybody sees your extremely flawed illogical debate tactics except yourself.

Right, right. I still fail to see where this hypocrisy is, you haven't pointed any of it out. And everybody? Wow, so you got like 100+ messages all of a sudden? Pretty awesome, I didn't know so many people liked to use the PM system.

Is it possible for you to debate without doing personal attacks? Just curious.

if you let wikipedia dictate your view and grasps of music, your comprehension of the creative arts and creative collective is far lost and not worth trying to save or argue.

you try to accuse me of being musically elitist, yet you feel you have the right to call people's creative conscious "garbage", and feel the need to attack people for disagreeing with you.

There is no arguing that that's a contradiction and hypocrisy. Everything in there contradicts itself, and/or is hypocritical.

Saying that if you look at wikipedia to "dictate" your musical choices, that you're not worth trying to "save" (aka, saying that by using wikipedia you are not up to "your level" of musical taste); yet then saying that it's bad to call other people's "creative conscious" garbage. (aka, it's bad to insult someone else's music or musical tastes)

you also are saying that i'm "too far lost" (an attack) yet you say that i'm the one attacking people, not you.

i don't know how i can make that any more clearer; those are *your words*.

I would spend the effort to point out your complete hypocrisy, failure, and personal attacks, but it would be effort wasted. nickname already did this, and you ignored him and started nitpicking. just go home.

Then don't post anymore. If you're just going to continually post about "oh i'd do it, i'd do it" but you don't do it, then you're far worse than someone who apparently "is hypocritical" because you don't even put forth the effort.

I ignored him? Pretty sure I replied to his post and said that he was right on some points, and countered others.

it would be effort wasted

There's an old Romanian saying that goes "Daca doi iti spun ca esti beat, du-te si culca-te"
"If two people tell you you're drunk, go to bed"

Thanks for providing the bandwagon, sheep-thought philosophy I was talking about earlier where if "everyone likes it/says it/does it, it MUST be right/good!"

[Potter]

ok let me put this in a clearer way that your obviously extremely distorted views can understand.

I will not spend effort debating you, because you will infinitely nitpick and twist things around, to prove your "point" (do you even have one anymore besides just try to act high and mighty?). you would argue that there is no gravity, for decades. debating with you is like debating with Smarterchild.